Dr sliders 28x18x17G

[MORON]

tried 28x18x17G and got a huge torque increase but top speed was reduced by about 3 to 4 mph. I'm a speeder so I am looking into heavier replacements. but for those who want to hold on to your bars for dear life that is the size. 0 to 45 in roughly 3 seconds and its really smooth. you dont even realize how fast your going until you look at the speedo. I dont have any cam data to post and i may work on that.

[dasshreddar]

. How many grams are the stock forza rollers?

[MichRocks]

tried 28x18x17G and got a huge torque increase but top speed was reduced by about 3 to 4 mph. I'm a speeder so I am looking into heavier replacements. but for those who want to hold on to your bars for dear life that is the size. 0 to 45 in roughly 3 seconds and its really smooth. you dont even realize how fast your going until you look at the speedo. I dont have any cam data to post and i may work on that.

VERY interesting. What is your new RPM at about 65mph? Did it increase, or decrease? I have been thinking about these things, and your post may be the nudge I need.

[willajabir]

F300 posted 23X18X21G in a reply to me on the stock weights in the Tech section.

[MORON]

ok.... so I bought the 28x18x17G then I bought the 28x18x 23g... so loads of torgue with the 17G's but lost about 1000 rpms meaning at 70mph I was at 7900 rpm. not gonna cut it. so I installed the 23G's and lost the torque but gained back the RPM's so now I am at 70mph and at about 6,600 rpm's. Using the 23G I have gained about 7 to 10mpg. the slower I go the larger the increase. Of course that would be applicable to any size slider. Although due to the shape of the Dr Sliders I believe the increase of MPG at slower speeds applys to both 17G and 23G respectively. If you want serious get up and go the 17G turn your forza into a rocket ship and your really feel it. but if you drive over 70....kiss your MPG goodbye. the stock rollers are 23x18x20. As i said I went for real MPG and re-installed the 23x18x23 after trying both for a couple of days.

[dergav]

and of course now that you have different Dr P slider weights you can mix then in use.... just alternate between the weights when installing in variator...then you get a mid performance if ever you want that.

[willajabir]

Moron,
Thanks for all the experimenting and reporting. This will help everyone wanting to change.

[Vulcandanny]

I am thinking to put 17gr sliders in but im a bit worried about the clutch and the belt. Any experience with that? My bike is almost new and I do not want to dammage the clutch or the belt because of changing to the 17gr sliders.

[dergav]

Moron..whats the acceleration like with the 23g sliders...better or worse than the stock rollers
I had put sliders on my previous scooter...Honda SWing 125 cc (Euro bike not available in USA) but I think they were too light as the acceleration was great but the engine seemed to me to be working too hard( revving too hard) even below 70 mph so understand what you are advising.

[alan]

just wanted to confirm the stock rollers are 23x18x 20grams. I bought a set of oem rollers measured them to be 23x18 had it weighed at the post office 7/10ths of an ounce =19.845 grams would be the 20g weight.

[alan]

im thinking of trying a 21g sliders when I get around to it ,seems like jumping several grams up or down is a little to much.i have heard people say just try one gram different when I try it I will let you know.

[BRed]

Stock Forza rollers are 23x18 - 21Grams each......
I weighed them last night.

this size roller selection for the Forza is quite fortuitous (for owners), since of all possible roller sizes, 23x18 is the only roller size that allows you 3 distinct choices of starting gear!


but I guess it's possible different markets got different weights?

[alan]

thank you BRed I think the guy doing the postal scale did a glance job ill go with your 23x18 21

[alan]

.[/quote]
I reweighed rollors and they are 21g sorry

[Pcxdemon]

What?! No Gn2 to chim in with his wise advice on tuning Forza?

[alan]

well I just ordered some 23x18 20g dr pulley sliders ill let you know how I like or dislike when I get them and try. I figured that shouldn't be much of a change I started to get 22g but went for the wild side of 1g lighter than stock.ha ha ha

[BRed]

A tip on using sliders....
their best trait is that they move along the variator ramp erratically, with some drag, much less smoothly than rollers do.
That means the upshift is extended over a longer time and the engine doesn't drop rpms as sharply as with rollers.
their worst trait is that they also lower your initial starting gear.

When you get the sliders and remove your variator, hold the back plate firmly and shake it....
probably no noise at all.
Now replace 3 rollers with 3 sliders in alternating ramps and put the back plate on and shake it....
yep, it rattles. What rattles?
The sliders rattle.

On your OEM variator, your starting gear is determined by the height of the rollers....
they're 23mm and when assembled they hold the moving face against the belt.
Sliders are 22mm tall...when all six ramps have sliders, the moving pulley moves 1mm further away from the fixed pulley....
your belt drops lower and this gives you a lower starting gear.
That is a large part of the slider "kick".

There are valid reasons for lowering your starting gear....
your engine is extremely under powered (not likely with the Forza!)
you weigh more than the bike (heavy riders definitely benefit from a lower starting gear)
your passenger weighs more than......no, I won't go there.
you ride in very hilly terrain (gearing down helps on grades)

but under most circumstances, if your bike is making good power, dropping your starting gearing just takes you longer to get up to speed.



But you can bump your starting gear back to it's original "gearing" by using 3 23mm rollers (they give you the taller starting gear) and 3 22mm sliders (they flatten the curve and hold the rpms during upshift)

I mentioned earlier there was a "third" starting gear option....
Helix rollers are 24x18.....same width, similar weight range, but they're 1mm taller than stock.....
they force the moving pulley 1mm closer to the fixed pulley and give you one more starting gear option.

Testing several dozen variators with the Veypor has shown that even mixed roller weights (3+3), anything that destabilizes and upsets the forces slinging the weights outward, slowing them or causing them to creep in stages or alternate in moving, improves acceleration.....

so for tuning the Forza variator, choose your starting gear:
Lowest..22mm slider
Low .....23mm rollers
not so Low....24mm Helix rollers

[gn2]

What?! No Gn2 to chim in with his wise advice on tuning Forza?

Hiya, here I am
Do what you like with your Forza if you ever upgrade to one.

My advice will always be : if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Just ride and enjoy.

[Pcxdemon]

I found that sliders sit taller in the vario than the roller,you can see that easily by assembling rollers or sliders in the vario and reinstall the back plate. You will see the position of the back plate where it sits afterwards,sits higher than with rollers. May explain why sliders give a slightly higher top end. To gain back that loss of lower starting point with rollers I like to use a small washer .3mm to offset taller sliders without loss of top end and regain great start of...
Sliders are great,seem will last forever,improve speed everywhere (ever slightly) . There is a clear feeling about it though,if you go back to rollers after sliders even if they are same rpm tuned weight you will feel that you have lost that oomph and it's just not quite the same,top end speed is no brainer,you will top out much shorter mph than with sliders.

[you you]

I've tried both and I'm frigged if I can tell the difference.