hate to ask a roller/slider weight question again, but wtf

[MaLLoc]

i cant understand how everyone keeps saying go lower in weights to get higher speeds , i tried this in a ruckus and wasted my money as i went much slower until i got heavier weights and a slight drive face crushing i got the ruckus going 54mph , i also tried this in my pcx , lower weights = less top end , my pcx 125 went 62 with i believe the stock 15 grams when i got it , then i got 18 grams sliders and got 65mph i went to 19 grams sliders and got 67mph , so what the heck seriously is everyone talking about go 12 and 13 grams to get higher top end

[Jge64]

I never read that here, always read lower weights = more low end grunt and less top end. I went with 13g sliders and got great off the line improvment, reduced a few top mph.

[relic]

I went with 14 gram sliders on a 2013 PCX 150
what can I say
the world hasn't changed
at 153 cc this bike out performs- stock
you are not going to get much more by modifications
changed shocks and seat following Mel good stuff
stripped mid bike plastics thanks to Dasshreader
the bike is a bike and it's OK

[Branyers14]

I went to 10g and then 9.5g rollers in my Daytona variator. Saw a top end of an honest 79mph (mind you, it took awhile to get there). Acceleration was also markedly improved. However, the bike did not pull as well up hill or against the wind. It would drop to 60mph in unfavorable conditions. I was also using an AdvancePro clutch and drive face in addition to the Kitaco torque driver (which I believe is the main reason I was able to reach such high speeds).

I think you must consider all of this when trying to attain a better top speed with other than stock rollers.

[waspmike]

I went to 10g and then 9.5g rollers in my Daytona variator. Saw a top end of an honest 79mph (mind you, it took awhile to get there). Acceleration was also markedly improved. However, the bike did not pull as well up hill or against the wind. It would drop to 60mph in unfavorable conditions. I was also using an AdvancePro clutch and drive face in addition to the Kitaco torque driver (which I believe is the main reason I was able to reach such high speeds).

I think you must consider all of this when trying to attain a better top speed with other than stock rollers.

Your using 9.5 or 10 gram weights suggests you have also changed the counter spring or at least one of your changes was effecting the spring rate. This is also suggested by you saying the bike slows down against a headwind or slight hill as the spring is not strong enough to force the variator into a lower gear.

Your values are useful to someone with the exact same set up but not of use to anyone with a stock variator.

[sendler2112]

The mass of the weights can't affect top speed because even the lightest weights will be locked all the way out at an rpm that is way below top speed. Different weights do have slightly different diameters though. If the weights are smaller around they might give a lower top speed. Dr pulley sliders will give the best top speed in stock variator.

[waspmike]

I think the point is that conventional thinking says that if the weights are too light they never get to the end of the ramp because the counter spring won't let them hence the lower speed. It is all about balancing the weights with the counter spring.

[sendler2112]

The PCX tops out at redline. At 9,600 rpm. Even ridiculously light weights will lock out by 9,000. My 12gm sliders lock out between 7,800 and 8,000. My bike came with 18 gm weights. Any functional decision for the weights will always lock out before top speed.

[waspmike]

So if I understand, the stock weights allow the motor to rev to a figure of, say, (for sake of discussion) 6800 rpm during acceleration whilst maybe be lighter, say, 13g weights allow the bike to rev to maybe 7800 or 8000 during acceleration. But that the heavier gram weights have shifted the bike into it highest gear earlier at maybe 8000 rpm, whereas the lower weights take until the bike reaches 9000 to be in the highest gear.

My understanding is the difference is at what rpm the CVT is in top gear, from which it is all engine grunt that dictates acceleration. Stock bike maybe in top gear at , say 75 kph and top out at 110. Whereas lighter weight will keep it in a lower gear until as you say at 9000 it reaches 80 kph then it is also engine grunt but from a higher rpm until it reaches maximum. I suppose for performance in an ideal world one would want the bike to only reach top gear when the engine reaches maximum horsepower.

If the variator takes until 9000 to reach top gear one has to ride around all day at 9000 rpm?

[sendler2112]

If the variator takes until 9000 to reach top gear one has to ride around all day at 9000 rpm?

No one is going to put weights in that are so light as to pull full throttle acceleration at 9,000 rpm. That would take 8 gm? weights and is way past power peak so it wouldn't accelerate as fast as 8,400 rpm weights. Even if they did, above 9,000 rpm the variator will be locked out so the final top gearing and top speed at 9,600 rpm would still be the same as 18 gm weights which lock out at 6,700 rpm.
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If you set the full throttle shifting rpm to 8,000 with 12 gm weights, the function of the torque slot still allows the rpm to drop down when not accelerating so you can still cruise at 5,500 rpm at 40 mph.

[waspmike]

Well the reason I asked is because i am confused with the term "lock out "

Do you mean the rpm at which the engine is allowed to rev during acceleration?

OR

The rpm at which the drive pulley is fully compressed?

[sendler2112]

Well the reason I asked is because i am confused with the term "lock out "

Do you mean the rpm at which the engine is allowed to rev during acceleration?

OR

The rpm at which the drive pulley is fully compressed?

They will be generally the same but the pulley is not fully compressed at any given rpm. It is locked out at a certain speed and load. For 12 gm weights the engine will rev to 8,000 rpm at full throttle acceleration until it gets the variator all the way out at 50 mph. At which point the weights are all the way out and engine rpm then increases with speed up to 65 mph and 9,600 rpm. At lesser throttle openings the weights and the variator will be all the way out at lower speeds and rpm since the torque slot is not yanking the belt down in the front as much.

[Branyers14]

This is what Yuminashi has to say about lighter weights, and it is the reason I went with 10g (and was very satisfied with the results):

The 10gr roller weights can be used on stock 125cc and 150cc engines for city traffic or longer distances at top speed where the top speed will be higher as with your stock roller weights, and it will be easier to reach top speed each and every time once these are installed.

With these 10gr roller weights the RPM's while driving at a very slow traffic jam speed are very well balanced.

If you have a brand new 150cc engine in your bike, then the 10gr roller weights are the way to go, they will give you very good acceleration and you will able to reach top speed each and every time.

If your engine is not that new again, and the compression is not anymore as what it was brand new, then the 9gr rollers will be a better option for you.

If you are not sure which weights to use on your stock 125cc or 150cc engine, then a suggestion is to order 1 set with 8gr roller weights and 1 set with 10gr roller weights.

With these 2 roller weight sets you can try 3 different combinations then which are 6x8gr, 6x10gr and a 3x8+3x10gr combination which would be a very good idea to do with a 125cc engine.
If you have a 150cc engine, then it would be a good idea in your search for the right balance to order 1 set with 9gr rollers and 1 set with 10gr roller, like this you can also make a 3x9+3x10gr combination.

If you have a stock 125 or 150cc engine you should not think about going heavier as 10gr roller weights....

If you have a 164cc kit or a higher cylinder displacement installed on your engine then you should use 12gr roller weights.

[Branyers14]

That said, I have a set of 10g Dr. Pulley sliders for sale. I have traded in my PCX for a Forza, so these are up for grabs:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/262005527685?ss ... 1555.l2649

[sendler2112]

10 gm is pretty light. I would be interested to see what the full throttle rpm would be with those. 8,400 rpm?
.
Interesting that he is repeating the wive's tale that top speed will suffer because it won't. Even with the light weights pulling at 8,400, at some point the speed will increase to the point that the weights are out of travel and the rpm will begin to rise. So from 8,400 to redline, the performane will be exactly the same as with heavy weights.

[waspmike]

10 gm is pretty light. I would be interested to see what the full throttle rpm would be with those. 8,400 rpm?
.
Interesting that he is repeating the wive's tale that top speed will suffer because it won't. Even with the light weights pulling at 8,400, at some point the speed will increase to the point that the weights are out of travel and the rpm will begin to rise. So from 8,400 to redline, the performance will be exactly the same as with heavy weights.

If one is building a drag bike then yes.

Only a few hundred RPM but the above example does not take into account the effect of torque on the belt which tends to keep the belt a bit lower in the drive pulley. Ideally when one rolls off the throttle at say 50 mph or whatever ones poison is the resulting lost of toque on the belt will allow he counter spring to close the rear pulley slightly so that the cruising RPM drops a little. Otherwise one has to ride around at all speeds at 8400 rpm!

If someone wishes to cruise at close to or higher than the stock maximum speed, then they have bought the wrong scooter!