16v head and ABS upgrade possible for PCX

Oyabun · Post by **Oyabun** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:09 am

Got curious after checked the bore-stroke of the 2015 Forza as it is the same as PCX 125. Just finished cross referencing the part numbers and it seems that most of it came from the same parts bin as the PCX.
Cylinder, gearbox, drive etc. is exactly the same as the PCX models. A bit of a mix and match though - as it uses the 125 cylinder but 150 crankshaft as it has 14mm piston pin.
Rear wheel is 14 inch, wider than the factory pcx one and uses the same driveshaft end as the PCX. It could be a viable option for anyone wants properly stanced wide tires at the back. Together with the right side swingarm would make a hydraulic rear brake upgrade possible. Eventually meaning a possibility for ABS installation.

waspmike · Post by **waspmike** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:27 am

Question is where is it made? It is not available in Thailand, so don't expect any cheap aftermarket 4v kits unless it is made in Indonesia or Vietnam?

Something much be different in the transmission as the Forza will do 80 mph.

Oyabun · Post by **Oyabun** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:01 am

I have to check further for place of manufacturing.
Forza 125 has the 44 tooth final gear versus the 47 toothed one which the pcx uses.

edit: it is most likely made in Italy.

waspmike · Post by **waspmike** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:54 am

Hi,

If you can find out 44/what that might be of some use as a gear up kit, if it fits. Malossi gear up for PCX is 14/47 so Forza might give a bit more.

GatorGreg · Post by **GatorGreg** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:54 am

Oyabun wrote:16v head and ABS upgrade possible for PCX

Holy crap - 16 valves?!? It's about time Honda started putting their Inline Four engines in the PCX - or maybe we're getting the Interceptor's V4 engine? They need to keep ahead of the competition

(Sorry Oyabun - I know you meant 4v head but I couldn't resist

)

Oyabun · Post by **Oyabun** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:39 am

GatorGreg wrote:
Oyabun wrote:16v head and ABS upgrade possible for PCX
Holy crap - 16 valves?!? It's about time Honda started putting their Inline Four engines in the PCX - or maybe we're getting the Interceptor's V4 engine? They need to keep ahead of the competition

(Sorry Oyabun - I know you meant 4v head but I couldn't resist )

Apparently. :-) Thanky for spotting and highlighting it. I have to admit I'm an inline four nerd...

Speakink of which I've just seen a cbr600 block jury-rigged to a Grom. Insane in every way - but not my cup of tea.

Oyabun · Post by **Oyabun** » Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:49 am

waspmike wrote:Hi,

If you can find out 44/what that might be of some use as a gear up kit, if it fits. Malossi gear up for PCX is 14/47 so Forza might give a bit more.

Mike,
The transmission gearing on the Forza 125 is the same as the 2013 pcx 150. Which is logical as they are more or less similarly powered.
I believe that Pcx demon has installed the 44 final drive together with the kitaco 14 counter gear to get a lot longer gearing altogether. I have the calculations on my computer of the various possible combinations but right now on my mobile only.

waspmike · Post by **waspmike** » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:23 am

Well they would go in sets so if 14/44 is available and works. Forza has a higher top speed which suggests it would be higher geared as PCX tops out at about 9300.

Oyabun · Post by **Oyabun** » Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:48 am

As per this video here: https://youtu.be/eAa0hhtGu3s?t=68 the forza is turning 10500 at top RPM, while my pcx125 revs to only 9500. which is almost 10% extra on the top end.
The power band for the Forza 125 is higher than of the pcx - 10,5kW@8750; 12Nm@ 8250 and 8,6kW@8500& 12Nm@5000 respectively.

Some parts you can exchange as a single item. Like this kitaco gear up kit: http://www.motorkit.com/en/transmission ... itaco.html
It would be logical if they'd go in pairs - but if I remember correctly I've seen only the final gear and shaft on pcxdemon's picture back in a while.
I have ordered the pair, but have not mounted it yet so cannot comment - waiting to do it together with the BBK install when weather turns in a way that I'll have a few days when I will not use the PCX daily.

BPT7594 · Post by **BPT7594** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:29 am

I know a guy running a full 150cc set, cylinder head, piston, and so on. He claims to have been able to hack into the ECM of his engine. It's a variant of the Click 125i esp from where I'm from. He said he has put the kitaco gear and the yuminashi gear set into his final drive and his time from 0-100 is like from 0-70 with the stock gears (kilometers per hour).
Does the Forza have a 4 valve cylinder head? If I can get my hands on it, my mechanic might be able to come up with how to bolt it on. Will look into this.

Oyabun · Post by **Oyabun** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:42 pm

Yup that's the point. The forza 125 has the same cylinder and lower end but uses a 4 valve head thus it should be a direct bolt-on except that one has to install a custom piston with four pockets for the valves.

BPT7594 · Post by **BPT7594** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:53 am

Well my mechanic said that after taking a look at the schematics closely he thinks it would fit just fine, may need some minor mods to actually fit it into the frame. But the sensors locations, sensor type would be wayyyyyy off. may go crazy and buy the entire FI system with the forza 125 ECU.

Oyabun · Post by **Oyabun** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:39 am

We might see different microfiches then as I pretty much see the same location for all sensors (not that it would make a huge difference to revire them anyway if controls line up)
The forza uses an interesting mix of components from the all new and older ESP PCX.

Here is 2015 the cylinder head assy of a forza 125

: forza125_2015.jpg (49.87 KiB) Viewed 2547 times

Compared to the 2015 PCX head

: pcx125_2015.jpg (96.66 KiB) Viewed 2547 times

and the 2012 PCX head

: pcx125_2012.jpg (61.11 KiB) Viewed 2547 times

And the same for the Throttle bodies
Forza

: TBforza125_2015.jpg (62.8 KiB) Viewed 2547 times

2015 all new pcx

: TBPCX125_2015.jpg (46.71 KiB) Viewed 2547 times

and the 2012 esp

: TBPCX125_2012.jpg (44.4 KiB) Viewed 2547 times

I'd definitely stay with the PCX ecu at first and use whatever sensors are available with the existing ecu.
For increased flow and fueling I'd use the 27mm TB from a CBR 125 or a 31mm from the CBR 150 (still retrofitting the original sensors) and a proper injector either from the forza 125, but more probably from a CBR as they are available cheap locally in VN or Thailand.

Use a custom piston from Yumi or highspeed piston with the cutouts for the valves and give it a go.

Now the only issue is that the forza 125 is manufactured in Italy as I understand - so gettinf a head assembly would some significant amounts of euros.

BPT7594 · Post by **BPT7594** » Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:36 am

My mechanic knows a guy who knows a big guy that works for Honda. Maybe he can get it. But still a lot of money though. No way I can do it alone on a student budget. Already struggling to get a torque gun

.
If I can get someone adventurous enough who happens to have a lot of spare money, this might be worthwhile.

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16v head and ABS upgrade possible for PCX

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