Tuning the Forza 300 CVT

[robertinino]

Bred as soon as possible with 24x18 dr pulley will catch him.............

R

[Mario]

16" vs 14" wheels = 31,92cm more to travel on one turn regarding the rear wheel, what means that you have a gear ratio decrease on the bigger wheels from the SH300.

Woodend be surprised iff the final (including rear wheel) gear ratio is exactly the same between the two.

one thing to keep in mind, Robert...

SH300i Final reduction 8.571

NSS300 Final reduction 7.537

and they have different sized wheels.

so all other things being equal (tire diameters, variator config, belt condition, exhaust mods and rider), the SH300i should STILL outrun the Forza in a 0-60 run or a drag race....its geared for more bottom end

one would hope that given enough road (and time?) we would eventually catch him but even that is speculation, until someone actually does it?

[robertinino]

Hi Mario happy to hear from you!
How is the weather in your country? Here in Tuscany is very nice so I run every days with my forza.
R

[Mario]

Hi Robert,

Lots of tree leaves on the roads over here, so for the moment the Forza is locked in the storage and I use my car.

Br, Mario

Hi Mario happy to hear from you!
How is the weather in your country? Here in Tuscany is very nice so I run every days with my forza.
R

[robertinino]

bred
do you have evaluated the possibility to mix 3 sliders 24x18 with 2 sliders 23x18 different grams?
Robert

[BRed]

Nothing like that but this weekend I made a key discovery....
Remember I said that 23x18 sliders made by DR Pulley used the same size core weights as 23x18 Honda OEM rollers?
They are interchangeable.

Well, I disassembled a 24x18 slider and it uses the SAME size core weight as the 23x18 slider/rollers.
The jacket is just thicker on the 24x18 slider.

That means I don't have to decide which lighter weight 2418 slider to order, since I already have sets of 3 DR Pulley sliders in weights from 14 to 21 grams.

I'll just swap out the cores to get whatever weight 2418 I want to try when the time comes.

[robertinino]

bred

[Oyabun]

Nothing like that but this weekend I made a key discovery....
Remember I said that 23x18 sliders made by DR Pulley used the same size core weights as 23x18 Honda OEM rollers?
They are interchangeable.

Well, I disassembled a 24x18 slider and it uses the SAME size core weight as the 23x18 slider/rollers.
The jacket is just thicker on the 24x18 slider.

That means I don't have to decide which lighter weight 2418 slider to order, since I already have sets of 3 DR Pulley sliders in weights from 14 to 21 grams.

I'll just swap out the cores to get whatever weight 2418 I want to try when the time comes.

Cool stuff. How do you separate the cores from the jacket? I tried to push out some of my original factory cores but did not succeeded.

[BRed]

If you mean the 21G rollers that came with the Forza, they are different from Honda's earlier 23x18 rollers for the Reflex...
they are slightly smaller in diameter by maybe .2mm?

I'm not even sure the cores will come out of the Forza rollers....I don't think they're sourced from the same supplier.

At first I used a drift punch to remove the roller cores, but eventually I made an inertial puller......
2"x2"x 24" with a 23mm hole drilled the size of the roller and a smaller hole completely through the shaft for the core.
File or sand the openings for a loose fit.

Drop the roller in with the open side down, pivot a retainer peg to hold the roller in and WHACK! it on the edge of your bench and the weight falls out the bottom.

I added a few chisel cuts for the odd shape of sliders.

[robertinino]

hi bred
I want to try a new configuration for cvt, do you have any news with 24x18 experiment?
Ciao
Robert

[BRed]

Hi Robert!
With temps here below freezing (26F), I've been getting my "winter bike" ready for another year......






when it comes to ICE, sidecars slip and slide a bit but they don't fall over!

Let it snow! x 3

[Oyabun]

Me like it. Big time.
I had an Ural with two wheel drive sidecar for fun while lived in Ukraine. Not an overpowered speedbike, but a truckload of smiles per price especially in winter.

[you you]

Hi Robert!
With temps here below freezing (26F), I've been getting my "winter bike" ready for another year......






when it comes to ICE, sidecars slip and slide a bit but they don't fall over!

Let it snow! x 3

Lovely

[Blackbeard1718]

AWESOME, BRed!

Cheers!

BB

[Gwynnus]

I tried a mix of 3x19g Dr P sliders and 3x15 g (which makes it equivalent to having a 17g set-up) - as suggested here but the overall effect was not as good as having just 6x19g sliders.

I didn't notice THAT much of a difference between the 19g and the 17g set up. Timed acceleration from standstill was almost the same even though the 17g set-up feels faster because it easily goes beyond 7000 rpm when accelerating with the throttle fully open. The bike also struggled to reach 120kph. I did feel one advantage with the 17g setup - riding uphill with a pillion passenger was noticeably better. But the biggest con is the significantly increased fuel consumption. I lost around 10 - 12 miles per gallon.

The 19 grm weights make a really noticeable difference from the standard 21 grm rollers. The bike accelerates much better - goes uphill without that irritating feeling that the bike needs to shift down a gear or two and the fuel economy is close to standard as is the top speed.

Clearly the 21g standard setup is done with to achieve optimal fuel consumption but at the expense of performance. The scoot is noticeably happier with 19g sliders or rollers.

I'm considering the Arrow exhaust and down-pipe. Has anyone tried it out yet? I'd love to know if the top-end improves (as I imagine it should).

Nev

[BRed]

Thanks for posting your results.

I also think 19G sliders will give the best all around results when using all 6 sliders.
I know several Big Ruck riders running 6 x 19G sliders and they are happy.
With the right sized rollers you can go a few grams lighter.

But I think the mixed weights will still edge them out on fuel mileage...maybe?
I know they rev lower at the shift point and at top end than 6x19G sliders.

It could be that I just like the feel of the flat 6400rpm acceleration for the first 6 or 8 seconds.

[ONTWOWHEELS]

I tried a mix of 3x19g Dr P sliders and 3x15 g (which makes it equivalent to having a 17g set-up) - as suggested here but the overall effect was not as good as having just 6x19g sliders.

I didn't notice THAT much of a difference between the 19g and the 17g set up. Timed acceleration from standstill was almost the same even though the 17g set-up feels faster because it easily goes beyond 7000 rpm when accelerating with the throttle fully open. The bike also struggled to reach 120kph. I did feel one advantage with the 17g setup - riding uphill with a pillion passenger was noticeably better. But the biggest con is the significantly increased fuel consumption. I lost around 10 - 12 miles per gallon.

The 19 grm weights make a really noticeable difference from the standard 21 grm rollers. The bike accelerates much better - goes uphill without that irritating feeling that the bike needs to shift down a gear or two and the fuel economy is close to standard as is the top speed.

Clearly the 21g standard setup is done with to achieve optimal fuel consumption but at the expense of performance. The scoot is noticeably happier with 19g sliders or rollers.

I'm considering the Arrow exhaust and down-pipe. Has anyone tried it out yet? I'd love to know if the top-end improves (as I imagine it should).

Nev

I have put an ARROW REFLEX on my SH 300 compined with DNA filter and 18grs Dr Pulley sliders to OEM variator.
The result is very good in acceleration but also to top speed.
The engine now runs much more better.
My consumtion is (average in 1.800 kms trip) 3,25 litters/100kms and the top speed rised up to 7-10 kms.

I 'm very pleased with this set up i believe that it will do the same job and have the same good result to Forza too.

You can see the exhaust and hear the sound with the silencer on (street legal) on the following video :


Hope i helped.

EDIT : And another video with a FORZA :
[youtube]BFRPmxXE0TU#t=14[/youtube]

[robertinino]

why anyone is really satisfied with combo mix?

[ONTWOWHEELS]

Because we have tried it and did not work good in our opinion (in 3 SH 300 various combinations).

[Jge64]

What was the theory that mixing the weights/sliders would be better? Wouldn't they just negate each other out a bit?