PCX design flaw--IMHO

[flyingzonker]

A few weeks ago I posted an account of an accident I had while riding my PCX 150. It was a low-sider, and at low speed, which should have left me in pretty good shape, given that there was no traffic to contend with and enough room for the bike to skid to a stop without hitting curbs, street sign posts, etc. The bike should have dumped me and then slid away, leaving me in the clear.

What actually happened was meaner than that: My foot got caught between the right floor board and the pavement. The whole weight of the bike rested on my ankle, just below--or maybe just above-- the inner ankle bone (aka medial malleolus) and pinning me at that point, it dragged me (kicking and screaming) maybe 4 or 5 feet.

I have tried to recall just what happened to allow this pinning and subsequent dragging to happen. If I had had my right foot off the floor board and hanging down when the bike low-sided, then, yes, that could explain my ankle being in a place where it shouldn't have been. But I am not in the habit of dangling my feet at any time while on a moving bike and don't remember anything like that being the case in this instance.

The only thing I have been able to come up with so far is this:The edge of my boot stuck out about an inch, maybe more, beyond the edge of the floor board. When the bike went down, before it went into its inertial skid, it slewed a bit backward, caught my boot edge on the pavement, bounced over my foot, pinned it, and then began skidding in the direction I had been traveling at the time of the accident.

My feeling is: The PCX floor boards are too narrow. If they had been wider, the bike upon low-siding could not have grabbed my boot and run with it.

[honkerman]

Tbh, this is an issue with scooters in general. If your foot is below the floorboard when a scooter goes down, you'd better hope your boots protect your ankle. Your boot sticking out a bit to the side should not have pulled the scoot up over your ankle, if anything, it should have pushed it back and up. I know my own ankle deflected off the edge of the floorboards but I had instinctively tried to stick my foot out as a stabilizer. Not smart on my part, but oh well.

With a motorcycle, there is less oportunity for one's leg to be crushed due to crash bars and depressions in the side of the vehicle.

Short story- the issue is scooter design in general, not just the PCX.

[easyrider]

I think that's a good point. The foot pads are narrow.You will re think this spill over and over as it is natural to go over the progression of the event. Foot pads definitely could be wider in my opinion too. Scooters will offer no protection as opposed to a motor cycle for sure but your point is valid.

[DailyRider]

Yes, I see what you mean. The wide floorboard on my old Vespa GT probably would have saved your foot some.

But on the other hand, I have a much easier time reaching the ground because of the PCX's narrower floorboard, so I'm happy that it's narrow.

If you find yourself mid-incident ever again, you want to jump off the scooter before it hits its side.
The trick is to jump and tumble and try to avoid sliding.
This is a lot easier to do on a scooter than a motorcycle and it keeps the bike off of you.

[flyingzonker]

Tbh, this is an issue with scooters in general. If your foot is below the floorboard when a scooter goes down, you'd better hope your boots protect your ankle. Your boot sticking out a bit to the side should not have pulled the scoot up over your ankle, if anything, it should have pushed it back and up. I know my own ankle deflected off the edge of the floorboards but I had instinctively tried to stick my foot out as a stabilizer. Not smart on my part, but oh well.

With a motorcycle, there is less oportunity for one's leg to be crushed due to crash bars and depressions in the side of the vehicle.

Short story- the issue is scooter design in general, not just the PCX.

I can't say with absolute certainty that I didn't do what you did. I may have tried to do something with my right foot to save the situation. If so, it was a forlorn hope and a piece of really bad judgement on the part of the subliminal consciousness.

[flyingzonker]

Yes, I see what you mean. The wide floorboard on my old Vespa GT probably would have saved your foot some.

But on the other hand, I have a much easier time reaching the ground because of the PCX's narrower floorboard, so I'm happy that it's narrow.

If you find yourself mid-incident ever again, you want to jump off the scooter before it hits its side.
The trick is to jump and tumble and try to avoid sliding.
This is a lot easier to do on a scooter than a motorcycle and it keeps the bike off of you.

I'm afraid these things happen too quickly, take the rider too much by surprise, to leave him any opportunity to put into effect a strategy like you describe.Jump and tumble? Hell, I was down and being dragged before I had a chance to blink.

I can see how practicing such moves on a dirt track somewhere with a dirt bike might improve my chances in emergency situations--but I don't have access to tracks and dirt bikes--and such practice would itself entail a certain amount of risk, more risk than someone my advanced age would care to encounter.

[DailyRider]

If you find yourself mid-incident ever again, you want to jump off the scooter before it hits its side.
The trick is to jump and tumble and try to avoid sliding.
This is a lot easier to do on a scooter than a motorcycle and it keeps the bike off of you.

I'm afraid these things happen too quickly, take the rider too much by surprise, to leave him any opportunity to put into effect a strategy like you describe.Jump and tumble? Hell, I was down and being dragged before I had a chance to blink.

I can see how practicing such moves on a dirt track somewhere with a dirt bike might improve my chances in emergency situations--but I don't have access to tracks and dirt bikes--and such practice would itself entail a certain amount of risk, more risk than someone my advanced age would care to encounter.

I don't recommend practicing "emergency dismounts" on a scooter, just be aware of the option.
If you are, then you may have time to realize that you can't keep the bike upright, and don't want to be under it as it goes down.

I don't know if you've taken the MSF class... they talk a lot about trying to anticipate problems before they happen. It's bad news when a problem takes you by surprise and it really limits your options.

They suggest that you ride a bit paranoid, spotting problems that might happen and planning what you will do if they do.
Then when one really does happen, you have plans ready.

Probably you know all this, so sorry if it's too much advice.

It isn't that you did things wrong, these are just thoughts for next time
(and if you're like me, there will be a next time)

[Bash On!]

"My feeling is: The PCX floor boards are too narrow. If they had been wider, the bike upon low-siding could not have grabbed my boot and run with it."

And if you had four wheels instead of two, and a metal cage, and a seatbelt and airbags, you likely wouldn't have slid out in the first place, or been injured if you had. I think it's a major design flaw of the PCX.

[WhiteNoise]

It must be me, I'm not getting this whole conversation. Narrow floorboards, is that it? Okay, maybe depending on the size/width of yer feets and boots. I guess the boards could be wider for comfort sake but in a fall? I'm missing the point. What's the diff, wide or narrow? Seems silly to me. They can get ya either way. My thinking and experience.

When I had my heavy bulky beautiful riding Piaggio MP3, it's floorboards were substantial in size and very well built. One day with me in the saddle coming to a stop she started leaning and falling to the left. I was probably going 2mph at the time. When I realized this was happening (in all of a split second), I put my left foot down in hopes of supporting it, then dragged my other leg through the pass as quickly as I could to touch ground next to my other foot. Hahaha...
The monster (just under 500 lbs) was winning. No holding her. So I bent my knees with her as she continued her slow fall and then I let go, and hopped backwards BUT her floorboard rubbed/scraped my lower left leg as she continued her very soft fall. I was lucky and still Standing back and away. I looked at her lying in the sand, rubbed my lower shinbone (bruising fast) and sighed saying out loud, "What the hell happened?!" My neighbor was out gardening, he saw the whole thing and helped me stand her up.
MP3's were notorious for sudden drops if it's front wheels weren't straight forward when stopping at slow mph. I also realized there was a strong curve to far left side of the road where I had pulled over. Put those two together and it spells 'fall' to a MP3. Has that been corrected on the newer MP3's, I don't know.

My point (you're wondering), is narrow or wide floorboards makes no difference "to me." There gonna get ya if you're in the vicinity of them. Are you watching? Heck no! Your about to go down! Who's looking? Hel-lo?
Just like Scooter vs Motorcycle makes no diff to me either. Why? Because My left foot has been trapped under a motorcycle's sidestand. Sidestand! In the ankle, That hurt like hell (and with improper boots on, that didn't help matters).
At the time, Should I have said...why didn't I ride my scooter instead? It has floorboards and Fat ones at that to save me (or even visa versa in the opposite situation) Nooo.

Of course I have my opinion, I have those experience's. Here look! These are the bikes I'm talking about (i love me bikes n pics) and... I talk to much, I know. What-Ever!

[DailyRider]

Oooo! Pretty, pretty pictures of bikes
Love the blue of the blue one and wondering if the orange one is a Harley?

You're totally right.
I haven't had the PCX long enough to drop it yet, but I'm thrilled that it has replaceable plastic side panels for when I do.

[DailyRider]

Oops, is that a Honda Shadow?
Better yet

[Geoffers]

Someone mention the instinctive foot down, and in my limited experience it would take a lot to override that instinct. I've a sneaking suspicion that FlyingZonker may have done stuck out his foot, in which case the size of the footboard becomes irrelevant.

[GatorGreg]

Sorry to hear about your accident Zonker. I'm not that experienced with scooters, but FWIW, I seem to remember reading a press review of the PCX where the reviewer mentioned that they too thought the floorboards were on the skinny side.

[gn2]

The design flaw is that they are designed to be ridden by humans.
Humans are very flawed and do all sorts of unforseen stupid shit.

[waspmike]

With a motorcycle, there is less opportunity for one's leg to be crushed due to crash bars and depressions in the side of the vehicle.

No one gets a brake lever through one's foot

[honkerman]

With a motorcycle, there is less opportunity for one's leg to be crushed due to crash bars and depressions in the side of the vehicle.

No one gets a brake lever through one's foot

The very thought makes me shudder.

[flyingzonker]

It must be me, I'm not getting this whole conversation. Narrow floorboards, is that it? Okay, maybe depending on the size/width of yer feets and boots. I guess the boards could be wider for comfort sake but in a fall? I'm missing the point. What's the diff, wide or narrow? Seems silly to me. They can get ya either way. My thinking and experience.

The width of the floorboard in this case could make a difference due to the board not being wide enough to ensure that the whole of the boot sole is supported. I have small feet--size 8--still the outer edges of my boots extend an inch or so beyond the floor board. This matters in the event of a low-side crash if the bike, instead of sliding directly away from the fallen rider, takes a wild jog toward him and then starts to slide away. If the bike does nod initially in the direction of the rider, his boot, still on the floorboard,can catch, with its exposed edge, on the pavement. The bike can then bounce over the boot and pin the boot at the ankle and, reversing direction, start to drag the poor bastard with it as it slides away.

One might be tempted to ask: Why would the bike take this crazy lunge in the direction opposite to where its inertia wants to carry it? Well, in an accident there are more forces unleashed than are dreamt of in Horatio's or anybody else's philosophy.

BTW, Nice bikes you've got there. I like that Piaggio especially--but I wouldn't like it falling anywhere near me.

[flyingzonker]

Someone mention the instinctive foot down, and in my limited experience it would take a lot to override that instinct. I've a sneaking suspicion that FlyingZonker may have done stuck out his foot, in which case the size of the footboard becomes irrelevant.

It is quite possible. I wouldn't rule out he instinctive wild save attempt. I just don't remember it.

[flyingzonker]

The design flaw is that they are designed to be ridden by humans.
Humans are very flawed and do all sorts of unforseen stupid shit.

I think you may have put your finger on the source of the problem here.

[iceman]

I've always hoped that in a side fall moment it's the handlebars and my shoulder armour that would take most of the fall rather than my feet or my putting my hand out (bad move!), but in the split seconds an accident happens, things definitely do not go to plan.