2015+ North American PCX150 (LED) Variator Mod Feedback

[Hugh_Jaz]

Hi All,

I've been lurking on this forum for a bit as I've considered the infamous variator/roller up/side-grade and I've taken the plunge and want to provide some thoughts on both the forum and what has happened to my scoot so far (having just installed today and ridden a loop).

First and foremost - there appears to be a lot of (let's be fair and call it condescending) comments by many of *why* mod a slow economical scoot to make it a slow uneconomical scoot? Here I really want to just state some absolute, ironclad facts and they do relate to a specific model:
- The new,2015+ PCX150 in North America is geared to hit the rev limiter at roughly 63-64mpg! There should not be a debate about this but I'm here to tell you it is, and I'm not the only one who knows so: http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/hi ... r-scootout
- that Honda won't confirm is simply their way of almost tricking people into buying one while still touting it as freeway-capable...
- what is not known is why, but I think since it's basically exactly maxed at 100KPH it fits some popular nation's license laws and Honda knows they will not have an equivalent market here.

So please, please just understand that the 2015+ LED PCX150 is undergeared to the extreme, and pretty easily hits that 100kph up in hill in a headwind, so it makes somebody like me looking for a short freeway commuter CRAZY that I can't at least just keep up with a semi on a downhill... so that's why!

I think this misunderstanding causes those folks with the older model that already goes near 70 to rightfully question the sanity and wisdom of the variator mod, and I think it's so common that you should never post on this topic at all without stating clearly which PCX you have. The older ones are both faster and have less power so no wonder they don't care about gearing

Anyway - with a variator upgrade (I won't say which one to avoid too much flame bait in one post, and my inaugural one too) and 10G rollers I went from the 63mph hard limit to seeing roughly 78 on a decent downhill with no draft. It appears this mod will allow me to continue enjoying this bike rather than selling it for a Burgman 200 (which I find kind of ugly and not really what I wanted)! It is more revvy accelerating but I'm going to stick with it for a while and see how it feels for a few months before tweaking the rollers if I do at all.

Look forward to continuing reading posts - will get some picks up of my scoot here shortly.

Thanks all for a great forum!

[chicaboo]

Hey there Hugh,

Thanks for the feedback. How is the acceleration now with the 10g rollers and undisclosed variator of choice? Any flatspots in the power band?

Can you please PM me which variator you have?
Cheers, Gav.

[Hugh_Jaz]

Hey Chicaboo,

No flat spots. Not quite the right question since the 10g rollers have the perceived affect of jumping the rpms up and keeping them steadily at revs that I would guess were close to 40mph (at about 15mph up until that speed) with the stock setup. Like mercilessly slipping the clutch on some underpowered motorcycle... So flat spots are sort of a moot point the acceleration comes from increasing speed as the engine maintains what sounds like a pretty optimal rev range at any throttle opening above about 50%. It feels more... scootery... than it did before. Acceleration seems about equivalent.

The improvement (which was what I had hoped for) is that when before it reached the final drive ratio around 50mph then climbed in revs to redline at ~100kph (where it would just bounce off what felt like a rev-limiter), now it simply seems to maintain the slip gear a little longer, then climb revs more slowly and never reach redline due to resistance from wind, weight, power, etc. I was not able to hit the limiter.

I didn't describe my "loop" in the first post but it was 32 miles of which about 28 were highway, with quite a lot of hills some were relatively steep. Certainly at times I could barely keep 60mph at WOT, but I suspect that would have been similar to the stock setup. The difference was nearly hitting 80mph on some downhill areas, and comfortably reaching 70mph on flat without hunching behind the givi screen. I'm 5.9" 210lbs by the way.

Can't PM yet but since you have the wrong model year I couldn't comment on this mod at all for you (see OP )

[chicaboo]

Thanks Mr Jaz,

I'm not particularly bothered that they aren't the same year model. I'm interested in the character of the power delivery and the results from your perspective.
My 2012 might not be quite as hampered speed wise, so I'm starting off down a different route - 12g sliders, clutch/contra springs and full exhaust.
I'm quite heavy at 260lbs so I'm hoping the clutch springs will get me up into the revs quicker off the line and nicely transition into the sliders doing their thing.
The clutch springs might not be necessary, but they're a highly recommended first mod on other forums even if they aren't the done thing around here.

Cheers, Gav.

[RRocket]

I have a 2015, and like you need more speed up top. Please PM me which variator you're using.

[BPT7594]

Hey Chicaboo,

No flat spots. Not quite the right question since the 10g rollers have the perceived affect of jumping the rpms up and keeping them steadily at revs that I would guess were close to 40mph (at about 15mph up until that speed) with the stock setup. Like mercilessly slipping the clutch on some underpowered motorcycle... So flat spots are sort of a moot point the acceleration comes from increasing speed as the engine maintains what sounds like a pretty optimal rev range at any throttle opening above about 50%. It feels more... scootery... than it did before. Acceleration seems about equivalent.

The improvement (which was what I had hoped for) is that when before it reached the final drive ratio around 50mph then climbed in revs to redline at ~100kph (where it would just bounce off what felt like a rev-limiter), now it simply seems to maintain the slip gear a little longer, then climb revs more slowly and never reach redline due to resistance from wind, weight, power, etc. I was not able to hit the limiter.

I didn't describe my "loop" in the first post but it was 32 miles of which about 28 were highway, with quite a lot of hills some were relatively steep. Certainly at times I could barely keep 60mph at WOT, but I suspect that would have been similar to the stock setup. The difference was nearly hitting 80mph on some downhill areas, and comfortably reaching 70mph on flat without hunching behind the givi screen. I'm 5.9" 210lbs by the way.

Can't PM yet but since you have the wrong model year I couldn't comment on this mod at all for you (see OP )

I think I know one particular variator brand that uses 10gr rollers, actually the guy making it loves 10gr rollers haha.
I used a great variator that comes with 10gr rollers once, very innovative variator with lots of tricks.
Unfortunately, I don't have it anymore, I'm making my own variator from stock variator now, but if you want good acceleration, stay very close to the 10gr rollers, I would say 11gr is the heaviest you should think of if you seriously want better acceleration and top speed.
Stock rollers that comes with 150 LED models I think is 15gr. Better than the last 150 (2012) at 17.5 or 18gr but still too heavy for serious acceleration.
The idea that 10gr rollers are what we need is a great one. I tune my scooter using only 10gr rollers. It provides better acceleration and top speed.

[Hugh_Jaz]

Hey All,

Update after two weeks:

1) Given I've been asked a couple times and don't seem to have the right to PM - I guess I'll just come out and say that it is the Yuminashi Kit and belt I installed. I used everything in the kit, didn't mix and match rollers (so just used to 10g, packed drive boss - which looks identical to the stock one, etc.).
2) Performance? Acceleration? Maybe just a tiny, tiny bit faster - still peppier than any car not realizing it's in a race to about 30mph, and crushed by anything except a Eurovan after that. Top speed? Absolutely transformed the scooter in the windy, hilly bay area:
2a) Can always get to 63mph indicated even into a headwind and up a hill - so nothing makes it worse than stock.
2b) No matter how long the downhill or aggressive the tailwind, I've never seen more than about 78, and 75 is really more realistic a speed to ever, ever attain. Tuck doesn't seem to matter here.
2c) Level ground with no tuck and minimal wind? Probably about 73mph
3) Economy? About 92.1 MPG over the last 400 miles which includes lots of freeway.

What does this boil down to? A now legit freeway machine if you stay out of the left 2 lanes except in heavy traffic.

So I'm keeping the bike, forgetting about that Burgman 200 and am done modding the scooter for performance. Yay! Look for me for accessories, cool sights, trips, rides and maintenance from here on out

[RRocket]

Is there a part number? And which vendor did you buy it from?

Thanks again for all the info...much appreciated!

[chicaboo]

Hey Chicaboo,

No flat spots. Not quite the right question since the 10g rollers have the perceived affect of jumping the rpms up and keeping them steadily at revs that I would guess were close to 40mph (at about 15mph up until that speed) with the stock setup. Like mercilessly slipping the clutch on some underpowered motorcycle... So flat spots are sort of a moot point the acceleration comes from increasing speed as the engine maintains what sounds like a pretty optimal rev range at any throttle opening above about 50%. It feels more... scootery... than it did before. Acceleration seems about equivalent.

The improvement (which was what I had hoped for) is that when before it reached the final drive ratio around 50mph then climbed in revs to redline at ~100kph (where it would just bounce off what felt like a rev-limiter), now it simply seems to maintain the slip gear a little longer, then climb revs more slowly and never reach redline due to resistance from wind, weight, power, etc. I was not able to hit the limiter.

I didn't describe my "loop" in the first post but it was 32 miles of which about 28 were highway, with quite a lot of hills some were relatively steep. Certainly at times I could barely keep 60mph at WOT, but I suspect that would have been similar to the stock setup. The difference was nearly hitting 80mph on some downhill areas, and comfortably reaching 70mph on flat without hunching behind the givi screen. I'm 5.9" 210lbs by the way.

Can't PM yet but since you have the wrong model year I couldn't comment on this mod at all for you (see OP )

I think I know one particular variator brand that uses 10gr rollers, actually the guy making it loves 10gr rollers haha.
I used a great variator that comes with 10gr rollers once, very innovative variator with lots of tricks.
Unfortunately, I don't have it anymore, I'm making my own variator from stock variator now, but if you want good acceleration, stay very close to the 10gr rollers, I would say 11gr is the heaviest you should think of if you seriously want better acceleration and top speed.
Stock rollers that comes with 150 LED models I think is 15gr. Better than the last 150 (2012) at 17.5 or 18gr but still too heavy for serious acceleration.
The idea that 10gr rollers are what we need is a great one. I tune my scooter using only 10gr rollers. It provides better acceleration and top speed.

Hey BPT, I thought the 2012 OWL had 15g rollers just like the 2015 LED. So the 11g sliders I ended up with should be quite a significant change when they're installed this weekend.
Does this mean the reported acceleration improvement on the LEDs is purely due to lighter rollers?

[Hugh_Jaz]

Next Update... from OP:

So - I've now had the mod on for about 800 miles or so - riding a lot and plenty on the freeway. Commuting to work is about 18 miles each way of which 17 or so are freeway. I see 70mph on the speedometer everyday, close to 75 most days on a couple spots where the wind is low and there is a light downhill. Certainly I can run easily with traffic as long as I stay out of the fast lane. I can also always hit 65 indicated unless I'm going into a headwind AND uphill at the same time. Economy remains between 91.8 and 92.1 mpg and the vast majority of my riding is freeway.

By way of reminder I have the Givi "short" screen (which rises just barely above the mirrors), and a large Givi B47 "Blade" topcase - I am certain the screen helps both the speed and the MPG and is an integral part of making the bike a livable freeway commuter. I took it off recently just to remind myself what it was like stock and it's harder to maintain the 70mph speed on level ground, and much more tiring. With the screen it's really quite nice and comfortable.

Finally - since folks have been asking about the acceleration, I have decided that I'm very happy with the 10g rollers, I do think that the scooter is just a touch better accelerating than stock and jumps right up to about 50 before trailing off into the freeway revs. To sum up the variator performance vs stock my feeling is that it runs higher RPMs at lower throttle openings up until about 50 before crossing the line into lower rpms regardless of throttle as it wanders up to the top, drag-limited top speed. The rev-limiter is completely out of the equation now.

And for those that have been asking as I've stated above it was the Yuminashi Variator "v.2016" torque control mod, plus the Gates V-belt they recommended - shipping was free and the whole thing only set me back about $120 so it's really worth a look if you do the work yourself. I followed a youtube video for the install since there was absolutely no written instructions in the kit. The "kit" was essentially a variator, 10g rollers and the drive boss wrapped in bubble wrap with packing tape and chucked in a box with a receipt. They have since release a v.2016-2 version which appears to come with some 18mm 11gr rollers (vs the 20mm 10gr rollers I used). Can't comment but I'm very happy with the performance of my kit. I think this is absolutely a must have, along with the Givi screen, if you plan on logging any serious miles on the freeway with your LED 2015+ PCX.

Happy scootering!

[outlander]

Please post me a link of where you purchased it from? Will I need a new belt? Im at 3800 miles. If you avoid free ways, lets say do 45mph, can you still get over 100mpg?

[BPT7594]

Hey Chicaboo,

No flat spots. Not quite the right question since the 10g rollers have the perceived affect of jumping the rpms up and keeping them steadily at revs that I would guess were close to 40mph (at about 15mph up until that speed) with the stock setup. Like mercilessly slipping the clutch on some underpowered motorcycle... So flat spots are sort of a moot point the acceleration comes from increasing speed as the engine maintains what sounds like a pretty optimal rev range at any throttle opening above about 50%. It feels more... scootery... than it did before. Acceleration seems about equivalent.

The improvement (which was what I had hoped for) is that when before it reached the final drive ratio around 50mph then climbed in revs to redline at ~100kph (where it would just bounce off what felt like a rev-limiter), now it simply seems to maintain the slip gear a little longer, then climb revs more slowly and never reach redline due to resistance from wind, weight, power, etc. I was not able to hit the limiter.

I didn't describe my "loop" in the first post but it was 32 miles of which about 28 were highway, with quite a lot of hills some were relatively steep. Certainly at times I could barely keep 60mph at WOT, but I suspect that would have been similar to the stock setup. The difference was nearly hitting 80mph on some downhill areas, and comfortably reaching 70mph on flat without hunching behind the givi screen. I'm 5.9" 210lbs by the way.

Can't PM yet but since you have the wrong model year I couldn't comment on this mod at all for you (see OP )

I think I know one particular variator brand that uses 10gr rollers, actually the guy making it loves 10gr rollers haha.
I used a great variator that comes with 10gr rollers once, very innovative variator with lots of tricks.
Unfortunately, I don't have it anymore, I'm making my own variator from stock variator now, but if you want good acceleration, stay very close to the 10gr rollers, I would say 11gr is the heaviest you should think of if you seriously want better acceleration and top speed.
Stock rollers that comes with 150 LED models I think is 15gr. Better than the last 150 (2012) at 17.5 or 18gr but still too heavy for serious acceleration.
The idea that 10gr rollers are what we need is a great one. I tune my scooter using only 10gr rollers. It provides better acceleration and top speed.

Hey BPT, I thought the 2012 OWL had 15g rollers just like the 2015 LED. So the 11g sliders I ended up with should be quite a significant change when they're installed this weekend.
Does this mean the reported acceleration improvement on the LEDs is purely due to lighter rollers?

The engine from the LEDs is essentially the same.
The transmission is not. Everything is different from the fron variator to the belt to the rear pulley to the torque spring.
Differences:
Variator now has less cooling fins on the front.
Rollers change from 18gr to 15gr.
Ramp profile is different.
2 sided v belt. Belt is also thicker.
A 125 LED has a purple torque spring, comes with a dedicated K35 rear pulley. A 150 LED has a green torque spring, comes with a dedicated K36 rear pulley.

The yuminashi variator is a very good purchase. Shame that I don't have it anymore. Very aggressive though, so if you're used to relatively quiet, docile acceleration, you should only change your roller to 10gr and be done with it.

[Hugh_Jaz]

Please post me a link of where you purchased it from? Will I need a new belt? Im at 3800 miles. If you avoid free ways, lets say do 45mph, can you still get over 100mpg?

http://www.yuminashi.eu/torque-control- ... -forza125/

Part: 22111-K35-001

http://www.yuminashi.eu/gates-powerlink ... cx150-led/

Part: 23100-KWN-000

As for economy I don't know for sure but I would guess yes. If this is your usual use of the bike though I would skip the upgrade it's not really worth it unless you're doing regular ~65mph speed limit trips.

[Eiron]

Hi Hugh_Jaz ( )

Do you have a "before conversion" mpg to compare against the "after conversion" ~92 mpg?

Thanks!

[Eiron]

The Yuminashi site you linked says to check/replace the 10g rollers every 1600km/1000mi.
Do you plan to do this?

[BPT7594]

The Yuminashi site you linked says to check/replace the 10g rollers every 1600km/1000mi.
Do you plan to do this?

No. I have 5000km on them and they're still 10gr.

[Eiron]

The Yuminashi site you linked says to check/replace the 10g rollers every 1600km/1000mi.
Do you plan to do this?

No. I have 5000km on them and they're still 10gr.

Thanks BPT7594. I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Do the rollers lose material over time/use?
The Yuminashi site gives this statement regarding roller maintenance:
"Over time, roller weights will develop flat spots which will impair the performance of your scooter."
I took this to mean deformation (rather than material loss) was the biggest threat to the rollers.

[chicaboo]

I just checked my original OEM 18g rollers with 3000km on them and they look evenly polished around their circumference.
I guess if you do really long journeys at a constant speed, you could potentially wear them unevenly?

[Eiron]

Okay, thanks for checking chicaboo!

I think I'll probably order a spare set of rollers to keep on-hand, since they're only $11.

One last question:
Has anyone mixed roller weights? The Yuminashi site suggests mixing 3x10g & 3x9g rollers on the 150cc stock engine.

[chicaboo]

Anything between 6x10g to 6x13g seems to work for people.
That combination you mention sound a bit light to me from what I read on here.
Mind you, Takegawa use 6x8g in their high performance setup...