1st experience w variator changeout at do it yourself shop

[OldGuywhoTinkers]

So I have been planning for the variator changeout on my 2013 Honda PCX150 for a year. I rounded up or purchased recommended tools, I purchased an extra Rigid impact wrench.

I then purchased the NCY Super Transmission set #1200-1195 and the 13 gram rollers # 1200-1191 from Scooterdomain.com out of Miami Fla in early August 2019

I tried earlier to purchase the kit from the Honda source in Ohio, but they were unbelievably uncooperative. No listed phone number, no one to talk to. They never answered e-mail.

I also looked at YouTube videos and I walked through the job as best I could in my mind and then I rented a motorcycle lift August 13, 2019 drove everything out to Lugnutz in Columbia, SC on Leesburg Rd. near the Columbia Veterans Hospital and set things up. Honda PCX/org blocked the upload of the 50 second video of me setting up and the area where I did the work. I thought the video would be of interest to others.

Initially it went quite smoothly. The generic videos on YouTube were quite helpful. I removed the left footrest, albeit breaking off one of two FRAGILE tabs, but helpfully exposing everything underneath. I removed the front variator and loaded the front variator with the 13 gram rollers (1200-1191) in one minute. I removed the original Honda rear clutch assembly.

(A couple of days earlier I had consulted with the chief Honda mechanic at Columbia Power Sports in Columbia SC, and he showed me how to load the replacement NCY spring in the kit onto the rear clutch assembly)

I thought I was ready to go. I worked slowly as to not make mistakes. I added moly grease to roller needle bearings, and I reassembled everything carefully. The original belt was perfect at 9,000 miles, but I added the brand new Honda belt.

But to my surprise, as I put everything back together the rear bound up. On center stand the rear wheel did not rotate. And it was almost impossible to rotate the forward section even using the clutch holding tool !

When I consulted with my local motorcycle mechanic (who loves building monster Kawasaki's and racing them in his spare time) he said that wasn't right and could be parts NOT IN TOLERANCE OR SOME MISTAKE MADE BY ME. I couldn't ask him to come because as a small business he and his father are swamped by work this time in summer.

So,

We agreed that since I had driven the scooter into the shop, that I should try the original parts (i.e. original Honda rear clutch) which I did. When I went back and did this: we had a new NCY variator w 13 gram rollers and original Honda rear clutch, (sanded bell housing and sanded clutch face areas) the bike ran FINE as I test drove it.

I did take the time to change the air filter, and change the spark plug at the same time since it was all exposed.

Currently the scooter drives great with the original rear clutch, the brand new NCY variator and the sanded rear bell housing and clutch surfaces.

But what was the problem with the rear NCY clutch ?

I went to bed exhausted.

[Old Grinner]

Some time ago . . . when the dinosaurs roamed the Earth . . . and food was free everywhere . . . there was a meeting of the minds about PCX clutch problems. They called it a "Forum". And it was good. Thus scriptures were written.

It was further decided that the scriptures should be considered sacred and passed on through time and generations to make the world a better place. They would be kept in a place called the "PCX Forum". And it was also good.

To become enlightened and achieve a higher sense of self awareness as you pursue scooter "Nirvana" please click on the following link and begin your adventure to a deeper understanding of the "NCY Variator/Clutch Kit".

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8793

So it was written . . . and so it was said . . . long ago . . . when food was free . . . and the dinosaurs once ruled. And it was good.

Say Alleluia . . . Say Amen . . ..

[fish]

Sorry. What?..
I drifted off somewhere near the Columbia Veterans Hospital.
He was changing his variator. ...did something happen?
Fish

[OldGuywhoTinkers]

OK, so you are saying that all NCY scooter kits ARE NOT THE SAME ! What the hell ! So now what are people like me (and others reading this)
supposed to do ? Corsport is the outfit with NO PHONE # and doesn't answer E-mails. I tried to purchase the kit through them !

[jburner]

I have a gently used (100 mi) NCY Variator, 13g rollers, and Drive face for sale if anyone is interested. Make me an offer. Listed in the For Sale ad.

[Mel46]

The NCY variator, drive face and rollers for the PCX 125 fit the 2013 150cc model nicely. However, you may have a problem with a 125cc clutch kit; it may not work on a 150cc PCX. In fact, some websites have been advertising that a certain kit will fit multiple types of scooters. It won't. I have read some reports where the old GY6 parts will work on a PCX. Nope.

However, if you know what you are doing you can read up on this information here on the enlightenment forum. I know that with just the NCY variator, drive face and 13 gram rollers for the PCX you will be fine. The clutch spring assembly replacement is not necessary in order to enjoy the higher top end and quicker starts offered by these parts. Give your bike a little time for the parts to seat and you will be quite happy.

[OldGuywhoTinkers]

So I have been planning for the variator changeout on my 2013 Honda PCX150 for a year. I rounded up or purchased recommended tools, I purchased an extra Rigid impact wrench.

I then purchased the NCY Super Transmission set #1200-1195 and the 13 gram rollers # 1200-1191 from Scooterdomain.com out of Miami Fla in early August 2019

I tried earlier to purchase the kit from the Honda source in Ohio, but they were unbelievably uncooperative. No listed phone number, no one to talk to. They never answered e-mail.

I also looked at YouTube videos and I walked through the job as best I could in my mind and then I rented a motorcycle lift August 13, 2019 drove everything out to Lugnutz in Columbia, SC on Leesburg Rd. near the Columbia Veterans Hospital and set things up. Honda PCX/org blocked the upload of the 50 second video of me setting up and the area where I did the work. I thought the video would be of interest to others.

Initially it went quite smoothly. The generic videos on YouTube were quite helpful. I removed the left footrest, albeit breaking off one of two FRAGILE tabs, but helpfully exposing everything underneath. I removed the front variator and loaded the front variator with the 13 gram rollers (1200-1191) in one minute. I removed the original Honda rear clutch assembly.

(A couple of days earlier I had consulted with the chief Honda mechanic at Columbia Power Sports in Columbia SC, and he showed me how to load the replacement NCY spring in the kit onto the rear clutch assembly)

I thought I was ready to go. I worked slowly as to not make mistakes. I added moly grease to roller needle bearings, and I reassembled everything carefully. The original belt was perfect at 9,000 miles, but I added the brand new Honda belt.

But to my surprise, as I put everything back together the rear bound up. On center stand the rear wheel did not rotate. And it was almost impossible to rotate the forward section even using the clutch holding tool !

When I consulted with my local motorcycle mechanic (who loves building monster Kawasaki's and racing them in his spare time) he said that wasn't right and could be parts NOT IN TOLERANCE OR SOME MISTAKE MADE BY ME. I couldn't ask him to come because as a small business he and his father are swamped by work this time in summer.

So,

We agreed that since I had driven the scooter into the shop, that I should try the original parts (i.e. original Honda rear clutch) which I did. When I went back and did this: we had a new NCY variator w 13 gram rollers and original Honda rear clutch, (sanded bell housing and sanded clutch face areas) the bike ran FINE as I test drove it.

I did take the time to change the air filter, and change the spark plug at the same time since it was all exposed.

Currently the scooter drives great with the original rear clutch, the brand new NCY variator and the sanded rear bell housing and clutch surfaces.

But what was the problem with the rear NCY clutch ?

I went to bed exhausted.

===========================================================================================
August 15 2019

Just caught your message at the top Mel, thanks for your comments. My impression is that apart from present and increasing noise from the needle bearings, that the bike rides fine right now. I clearly have the benefit of a brand new front variator, with those 13 gram rollers. I just would like to have a easy drop in rear clutch replacement OPTION in a year or so.

I was scared of starting a repair and getting hung up on it because of lack of experience, but things actually went pretty well until I tightened things. I have talked several times with a local friendly Honda master mechanic. He warned me that you could bum up the main crankshaft so I was extra careful assembling it and I now I know more than I did one year ago !

While I am at it, What are the total options or recommended options for the rear clutch replacement ? It's clear that those needle bearings can wear and become noisy. Are some clutch assemblies heavier duty and more trouble free than than others ? I looked briefly at some of the replacement options for components on webike. (It is a new website for me) Does anyone have experience with these products ? I would have to study webike options for the PCX150 for weeks to conclude anything meaningful.

I left a message and links from this blog with tech support at Scooterdomain.com (Miami) and am waiting for a response from them.

[Mel46]

Keep in mind that some of the 2013 models had a problem with the clutch bearings. It is a known problem that Honda has not acknowledged. When they start making a growling noise when you spin the wheel backwards (bike not running and on center stand) then you will know that they are going.

Parts #18 and #19 are the problem. I think someone did not pack enough grease in them.

Clutch bearing.jpg (21.67 KiB) Viewed 1368 times

Replace the entire assembly. It is quicker and cheaper. (Item #8)

Honda PCX driven face.jpg (107.89 KiB) Viewed 1368 times

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda ... riven-face

[OldGuywhoTinkers]

I have a gently used (100 mi) NCY Variator, 13g rollers, and Drive face for sale if anyone is interested. Make me an offer. Listed in the For Sale ad.

I might get back with you. I am away from the house right now and will be resuming some activity school bus driving next week.

[OldGuywhoTinkers]

Question, It appears that when the rear tire is removed, (for brake service or tire replacement) are there any bearings in the wheel time itself ? I have never removed the rear tire.

[Jge64]

None....time to get yourself a shop manual.....

[OldGuywhoTinkers]

Comments: One I just ordered the Genuine 2013 Honda Shop Manual for the scooter from my local Honda motor sports dealership. (Guess I'm gonna become an expert ! )
=================================================================

I have a Givi Monobloc carrying case mounted on the scooter, and I had noticed that the stop lights were ''flaky'', intermittent. I had another scooter pull up along side and tell me that the upper lights were not coming on when I braked, etc.

Wasn't sure if the led upper lights were defective somehow. I called Rev-Zilla who referred me to Givi help in Charlotte, NC and we talked. Turns out that we have upper spring loaded pins that make contact with two flat surfaces on the bottom of the bottom clamshell. That's obvious. What isn't , is how the lower contact portion fastens to the brake light wires through screw terminals, like you would find on a modern thermostat wired to an AC unit.

It is hard to get the snap together bottom piece apart. (The entire piece as a unit slides off, though)

I finally got it apart, and sure enough one screw was loose, the other was screwless, the screw having dropped to the bottom of the assembly.

So if you are using screw terminals ANYWHERE, particularly on lighting, sound systems, cigarette lighter mods, fasten them tightly with
locktite or superglue so they don't loosen up with scooter vibration !

[Mel46]

I have one of those units. I continually had problems with the contacts. After riding around on uneven roads for a little while the lights would start flickering again. Eventually I yanked the connectors, added my own connector, ran it through the hole to its mate under the rack, tied the excess up with a releasable tie wrap, and didn't worry about it any more.

[easyrider]

I suppose in the interest of tinkering, IMHO I have no other idea why anyone would mess with the drive line with anything aftermarket. Honda does a lot of engineering to obtain the best performance for utilizing available torque and horsepower. Is it worth getting a few more MPH for this urban designed bike??Maybe so. There will be tradeoffs to consider and I am sure its all in the equation . Have fun!

[OldGuywhoTinkers]

I suppose in the interest of tinkering, IMHO I have no other idea why anyone would mess with the drive line with anything aftermarket. Honda does a lot of engineering to obtain the best performance for utilizing available torque and horsepower. Is it worth getting a few more MPH for this urban designed bike??Maybe so. There will be tradeoffs to consider and I am sure its all in the equation . Have fun!

==========================================================================================

Let me offer a reason or two. Americans have always liked hot rodding cars and motorcycles.

In fact that industry sparked many improvements in American cars through aftermarket sales of IMPROVED PARTS. One simple example was major or minor drag racing which sparked minor industries of much stronger aftermarket parts used when rebuilding hard use automatic transmissions so they wouldn't break while repeatedly running down the drag strip over and over again. Sometime the strongest automatic transmissions on the drag strips like the Chrysler and GM brands, were also found in pickups and large American cars. So some people at overhaul time would have those changes made by their local automatic transmission re builders because they towed trailers.

Other changes were in areas like carburation, fuel injection, intake manifolding, electronic ignition, and so on.

Personally I am not against minor improvements. The hardest thing for me is to evaluate the aftermarket because once purchased, it's all mine or yours.
One of the things I look for on this site is consensus or tried and proven products.

And consider our audience. Some are 15 year olds with a teenager's mindsets. Some are older and getting afraid of Honda Goldwings. Some don't want to spend too much money. Some used to drive 1,000 cc Kawasaki's, some like to see the look on the face of the driver to the right as they pass them at 66 mph, and the rest just think this scooter is fun.

[gn2]

Question, It appears that when the rear tire is removed, (for brake service or tire replacement) are there any bearings in the wheel time itself ? I have never removed the rear tire.

There's a bearing in the A-bracket (thing the exhaust bolts to)

[OldGuywhoTinkers]

I have one of those units. I continually had problems with the contacts. After riding around on uneven roads for a little while the lights would start flickering again. Eventually I yanked the connectors, added my own connector, ran it through the hole to its mate under the rack, tied the excess up with a releasable tie wrap, and didn't worry about it any more.

I found that helpful. Old Guy Who Tinkers

[you you]

you could bum up the main crankshaft

Good advice amongst the gobbledegook- don’t bum any of your crankshafts, least of all your main one....

[OldGuywhoTinkers]

Keep in mind that some of the 2013 models had a problem with the clutch bearings. It is a known problem that Honda has not acknowledged. When they start making a growling noise when you spin the wheel backwards (bike not running and on center stand) then you will know that they are going.

Parts #18 and #19 are the problem. I think someone did not pack enough grease in them.

Clutch bearing.jpg

Replace the entire assembly. It is quicker and cheaper. (Item #8)

Honda PCX driven face.jpg

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda ... riven-face

Aug 27, 2019

Observations on changing the front variator. First The front variator was replaced with the NCY variator and the 13 gram rollers. Since the rear clutch wasn't right, I replaced or continue to use for now, the factory Honda rear clutch, decided to reuse the factory belt since there was no evidence of wear, and put it all back together. Clutch parts were authorized for return to seller, (hoping for partial refund)

Now the scooter definitely accelerates much stronger in the 10 - 50 mph range, BUT now a have a surge while accelerating, vibration plus noise 10 - 40 mph where wind noise and the sound of the engine finally take over. It is definitely noisier than before I made the change. Any Comments ?

[Mel46]

The rollers determine how fast you get to your top end. The rollers installed be Honda are set up to increase mpg, since that was their objective in the development of the PCX. Changing the rollers to 13 grams instead of the heavier ones will give you quicker pickup, but at the expense of smoother acceleration in the lower speeds. In short, you don't NEED the 13 gram rollers to get a higher top end. Many of us do it for quicker takeoff at lights or quicker acceleration when starting the climb up long hills..