Just rollers vs complete variator

[chicaboo]

Hi gang,

Since I was talking to myself mostly in the other thread I thought I would narrow the scope a little and start fresh.

I'm after your thoughts and opinions on just getting 13g rollers for the stock variator vs a complete variator and drive face with rollers?
To compliment just the 13g rollers, I would also upgrade the contra (+10%) and clutch (+23%) springs with Wirus brand off Webike.

Basically what I want to know is what the complete variator kits offer compared to the stock unit.
I assume aftermarket have a different profile to let the belt ride higher for slightly more speed. Does this require a longer belt?
Can't this be achieved by grinding 1mm off the variator boss with the stock variator? Or will the stock belt be too short for this?

Do I need to replace my stock belt if I just get 13g rollers and upgraded clutch springs? The belt has less than 3000km on it.
I'm not entirely sure, but it seems the stock belt is a Gates reinforced type (23100-KZY-701)? Can someone please clarify?

The only NCY variator kit I can find is a complete kit including clutch, costing $405USD (almost $550AUD) shipped to AUS. That's out of the question...
Webike sell a Kitaco variator with drive face and 15g rollers kit for ~$110AUD. They claim better acceleration and top speed. I can manage this.

The only other performance mods would be a complete exhaust and rear YSS Z series shocks.
Cheers, Gav.

[Mel46]

Well so far you have backtracked multiple times, so I can't tell what you really want information on. Without adding anything else, the 13 gram rollers will help acceleration but not top end. As far as the drive face and variator go, after being on this forum for quite some time, and reading all of the opinions on the various types of variators and kits for the PCX, I came to the conclusion that the NCY variator and drive face combination, along with the 13 gram rollers is the best bang for the buck. That doesn't mean that you can't get better performance out of other kits, such as the big bore kit. It just means that for the small amount of money put out for those parts, you should be able to get some of the best boost. Also, it seems that NCY has been the most popular and has proven itself, so I would stick with them. I have just the 13 gram rollers on my bike and I have the 13 gram rollers plus the NCY variator and drive face on my wife's bike. Her bike can now leave mine in the dust and tops out at 75 mph, vs only 65 mph for mine.
To find these items in your part of the world, use Google and type in these words: NCY variator and drive face for PCX

[dasshreddar]

just sliders is the best bang for the buck.
for around $30 you gain 1 to 2 mph top speed and lots of acceleration.
I use 12g sliders in my 150 and think it was the single best mod, even better than bigger cam, exhaust, etc.
If you need to go around 75mph get a aftermarket variator.

[chicaboo]

Well so far you have backtracked multiple times, so I can't tell what you really want information on. Without adding anything else, the 13 gram rollers will help acceleration but not top end. As far as the drive face and variator go, after being on this forum for quite some time, and reading all of the opinions on the various types of variators and kits for the PCX, I came to the conclusion that the NCY variator and drive face combination, along with the 13 gram rollers is the best bang for the buck. That doesn't mean that you can't get better performance out of other kits, such as the big bore kit. It just means that for the small amount of money put out for those parts, you should be able to get some of the best boost. Also, it seems that NCY has been the most popular and has proven itself, so I would stick with them. I have just the 13 gram rollers on my bike and I have the 13 gram rollers plus the NCY variator and drive face on my wife's bike. Her bike can now leave mine in the dust and tops out at 75 mph, vs only 65 mph for mine.
To find these items in your part of the world, use Google and type in these words: NCY variator and drive face for PCX

I appreciated your feedback up to this point Mel, but I'm not backtracking or flip flopping. In that other thread I stated what my stage 1 and 2 goals are, and that hasn't changed. Maybe it was too much in one hit for people to bother responding to? Hence why I started a new thread just on the variator.

How I spend my money for those first and secondary performance goals is up for debate and I'm just trying to get feedback from experienced forum members as to how best get the most bang for my buck and at least try to spend my money wisely. As it stands I've not had a lot of feedback to formulate a strong opinion on, which is why I ask the questions.

But getting back to basics for stage 1:
1. Eliminate the flat spot from 40-70kph and improve acceleration (exhaust, rollers, variator?, clutch springs).
2. Higher top speed is nice but not essential at this stage (variator?).
3. Improve suspension (settled on YSS Z series shocks).

Seriously guys, I'm not asking how to make my scooter go 170kph... I'd love to share more of my goals, progress and owner experience with the bike as time goes on, but so far I don't feel encouraged. My thanks goes out to those who have patience and understanding and can bear with me. But I don't think I'll bother discussing BBK, cams, rockers, ECU and stage 2 whatnot down the track...
Gav.

[chicaboo]

just sliders is the best bang for the buck.
for around $30 you gain 1 to 2 mph top speed and lots of acceleration.
I use 12g sliders in my 150 and think it was the single best mod, even better than bigger cam, exhaust, etc.
If you need to go around 75mph get a aftermarket variator.

Thanks dasshreddar, do you know if 12g sliders are comparable to rollers weight for weight? I've read that Dr Pulley recommends to drop 10-15% for a good starting point. I think the stock 150 rollers are 15g, so I figured 13g seemed a good place to start. I'm guessing the stock variator won't chew up sliders any worse than an aftermarket unit will or won't - but I haven't seen how smooth the casting is yet. I'll jump on that Google thing and see what I can find as far as suppliers go...

Cheers, Gav.

[Jge64]

just sliders is the best bang for the buck.
for around $30 you gain 1 to 2 mph top speed and lots of acceleration.
I use 12g sliders in my 150 and think it was the single best mod, even better than bigger cam, exhaust, etc.
If you need to go around 75mph get a aftermarket variator.

I did same with 13g dr pulley sliders after consulting with Mel here. Coming up on a year and still VERY happy with the result. Great accel, don't need more top end. The 3 bests mods I've made are the sliders, malossi pipe and the YSS Z shocks....

[chicaboo]

just sliders is the best bang for the buck.
for around $30 you gain 1 to 2 mph top speed and lots of acceleration.
I use 12g sliders in my 150 and think it was the single best mod, even better than bigger cam, exhaust, etc.
If you need to go around 75mph get a aftermarket variator.

I did same with 13g dr pulley sliders after consulting with Mel here. Coming up on a year and still VERY happy with the result. Great accel, don't need more top end. The 3 bests mods I've made are the sliders, malossi pipe and the YSS Z shocks....

Hey Glen, that's good to read how the sliders have worked well for you too. I'm going to give them a go since they're cheap.
What rating of z series shocks do you have, XL, XXL? Did you find the front of the bike dipped more so afterwards?

Gav.

[proteinsdef]

I also wondered if lighter rollers would increase the rpm into the sweet spot on my pcx 125, over the need for a aftermarket variator. However, after researching I decided to plump for the mallossi multivar 2000 with malossi belt. I also purchased the full arrow exhaust system.
The difference is marked. For example, the rpm is much higher but also pulls much better, and gets rid of that dip around 40mph.
I felt that is if just changed the rollers, I would be sacrificing top end for the sake of increasing the revs. The angle on the aftermarket variator was steeper, so I assume can push the belt out further and faster. I do not hit the rev limiter anymore either.

Now I can get 70mph indicated on the speedo (probably around 65mph), before it would stuggle to get to 60mph on the speedo and as I said it gets there much quicker. I can feel the clutch biting too early, so stiffer springs are next.

Suggestions are that you get a aftermarket kit and install the contra spring that comes with it. You can order the mallossi on ebay for £100.

[easyrider]

I am 6.0' and weigh about 210 and the best I can do is 63 mph on a level road mild wind with stock rollers. I think the weight and height of the rider has a lot to do with the top end.I also use a tall windscreen which is great but I have noticed that cross winds have more affect on riding . On any given day anything can change based on road , wind, person height to weight ratio, terrain etc, etc etc.. The PCX is very light which is why so many more things come into play which makes it nimble and why its fun to ride. I had a burgman that rode nice but heavy up front and turned like a truck. This PCX is super nimble but there are trade offs I suppose. I like the PCX better..

[Jge64]

just sliders is the best bang for the buck.
for around $30 you gain 1 to 2 mph top speed and lots of acceleration.
I use 12g sliders in my 150 and think it was the single best mod, even better than bigger cam, exhaust, etc.
If you need to go around 75mph get a aftermarket variator.

I did same with 13g dr pulley sliders after consulting with Mel here. Coming up on a year and still VERY happy with the result. Great accel, don't need more top end. The 3 bests mods I've made are the sliders, malossi pipe and the YSS Z shocks....

Hey Glen, that's good to read how the sliders have worked well for you too. I'm going to give them a go since they're cheap.
What rating of z series shocks do you have, XL, XXL? Did you find the front of the bike dipped more so afterwards?

Gav.

XL...no dip......

[chicaboo]

Great feedback guys! Based on your comments I'll definitely be getting a variator kit in a couple of months to help round out the performance.
But since my initial list of mods is pricey I'm just going to start off with an exhaust, 12/13g Dr Pulley sliders and Wirus clutch springs.
This way I get some cost effective initial performance gains and then I can compare the difference to a variator with rollers and new belt.
That doesn't sound like much cost, but there's also a windscreen, dash surround, and graphics kit that needs to be professionally applied.

One last question regarding installation of the transmission parts: I'm sure I've read that the variator nut is 23mm and the clutch nut is 39mm.
Is this correct? I'm going to order a variator tool of eBay rather than try and make my own. I think I'll get some good use out of it tinkering.
Thanks to all for providing your feedback on different options in this and the other thread.

Cheers, Gav.

[chainsaw]

12g rollers def work best in a mainly stock 150. The Kitaco variator is prob the best allround that i have tried, but its not good for top-speed plus it only works best with their belt. Daytona or SP Takegawa variators are both excellent products combined with the M-factory pulley face, and will give you a better top speed and acceleration. Its a good idea to just try the rollers first and get an understanding of the difference they make.

[chicaboo]

Kitaco sounds problematic if its only ideal with their own belt, not good when you need a belt in a pinch.
I can only find Gates, KN Planning and Daytona belts on Webike even though they sell two different Kitaco variator kits.

Amazon have a Yokokzuna high speed Pulley kit with drive face and 12g rollers for $120USD. That's not too bad.
Getting a complete variator kit affordably to Oz is proving tricky, but if they are all better than stock, I can only win.

It's probably worth me getting a tacho of some sort so I can monitor the changes from the different setups over time.
Cheers, Gav.

[chicaboo]

Hey you!

So my Dr Pulley 11g sliders turned up, cute little things they are. The local distributor says that 11g sliders are comparable to 12~13g rollers... He also talked me out of clutch shoe springs, saying they are more so for race applications and that they'd make life too interesting trying to throttle out of corners. He also said that a firmer contra spring pretty much serves the same function as lighter rollers, and that you'd only use a firmer contra spring with heavier rollers. So I guess the money I've saved can go towards a rattle gun and Loc-tite? Yay!

He has an account with NCY, so maybe that could be a thing in a few months? Now I'm just waiting for the $AUD to recover against the ¥en back to where it was just over a week ago, then I can order an exhaust and maybe some other things.

Actually, now is a great time for you guys to confirm if the Jesus nut on the variator is 22mm of 23mm? I've seen both numbers thrown around on here, so I'm at a loss.

Cheese, Gav.

[k2apache6.0]

Hey you!

So my Dr Pulley 11g sliders turned up, cute little things they are. The local distributor says that 11g sliders are comparable to 12~13g rollers... He also talked me out of clutch shoe springs, saying they are more so for race applications and that they'd make life too interesting trying to throttle out of corners. He also said that a firmer contra spring pretty much serves the same function as lighter rollers, and that you'd only use a firmer contra spring with heavier rollers. So I guess the money I've saved can go towards a rattle gun and Loc-tite? Yay!

He has an account with NCY, so maybe that could be a thing in a few months? Now I'm just waiting for the $AUD to recover against the ¥en back to where it was just over a week ago, then I can order an exhaust and maybe some other things.

Actually, now is a great time for you guys to confirm if the Jesus nut on the variator is 22mm of 23mm? I've seen both numbers thrown around on here, so I'm at a loss.

Cheese, Gav.

Soooo.. how did things go with just the 11g sliders, and have you done the other mods yet and to what benefit?

[chicaboo]

Hi Apache,

I'm still waiting for my variator tool to arrive. My impact driver arrived the other day, but I still want the v tool to hold the variator while I manually torque it up to the unknown spec no one wants to tell me... On this site I have only found 59Nm and 91Nm torque spec for the variator nut, but these are world's apart and I can't find the torque spec on a Google search either. So I'm at a loss even after my v tool turns up?

In some other good news, my exhaust and Rothmans Honda graphics kit arrived safely from Japan. So at worst I will at least be able to do my exhaust this weekend. I will have to get some new Loc-Tite, but otherwise I'm good to go with the exhaust. I'm going to get the graphics kit and logos professionally applied so I don't get bubbles and peeling from me doing a dodgy job.

If you subscribe to or keep an eye on this thread, I will definitely post my results here once the sliders are in. So far the stock scooter has been handling the hills here quite fine even with my weight. So I'm hoping for great things once the sliders are in. If anyone feels free to chime in with the correct torque setting for the v nut, it will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers, Gav.

[txpcx13]

You can use the variator tool... OR... impact gun with "torque stick"(which is what I did). I have a variator tool but didnt bother using it as the impact gun will remove it easier/quicker, and with a "torque stick" you can control how tight you put it back on without breaking stuff.
.02

[chicaboo]

Hey TX,

I've got a torque wrench, but I still don't know what the torque setting is for the variator nut. I've only found it mentioned twice on here and the figures differed greatly.


Gav.

[txpcx13]

I will see if I can find it again, but I am thinking it is 45-55. I used an impact gun because I was scared to damage the variator fins on the aftermarket variator. The OEM variator has the 2 holes for the tool to keep it from spinning and will allow you to use your torque wrench.

[txpcx13]

40-45 for the front(variator drive face nut).
The official manual says 59NM/44ftlbs.