Deliberately idling Forza on stand to empty fuel system

[GaryCotnam]

Hi from Canada. This topic may have been covered already but I couldn't find anything with the searches I tried, so I'm posting this as a new topic.

Every fall I intend to drain the fuel system on my 2014 Forza in preparation for winter storage but, due primarily to laziness, have ended up just using gasoline stabilizer. This year I've got the tank down to just a couple of litres and was thinking of letting it run at idle on the stand until the engine runs out of fuel. I know that this could take quite a while so now I'm worried that the engine may overheat. If anyone has done this or feels that it's not a good idea, their comments and advice would be most appreciated.

Gary

[homie]

FI's don't like to be dry of fuel for extended periods of time. I once intended to log miles after a low fuel light by intentionally running out of gas. My auto mechanic lives on my block and ask why I was riding with a fuel can strapped to my passenger seat. He set me straight on potential problems with newer engine designs and draining all the fuel from the systems but said I was ok to temporarily empty the tank. Maybe research the why if you get a chance, I didn't ask

[Jge64]

If you were going overseas on a military tour, and the bike was gonna be down for a couple years, you might want to drain the system. But I agree, there's no use for it on a single winter storage. Just properly treat the gas, put in high octane and pull the battery, take it inside and put it on a battery tender.

[davenowherejones]

VERY BAD IDEA.

You will probably destroy the fuel pump.

The pump will last longer if you always have a full tank. I ran my minivan on empty for a few months and needed to replace the thousand dollar fuel pump.

I think Canadian gas has a longer shelf life than USA gas. Not sure but my foggy memory recalls this.

Where in Canada are you? I am in Hope, BC and I expect ice in November. I found rideable days all through the winter. Not many but enough to keep refreshing the gas and charging the battery.

I have a Canadian Tire solar battery maintainer about the size of a heating vent. No problems yet.

[gn2]

Far better to fill the tank to the brim and add stabiliser.

[Old Grinner]

Add fuel stabilizer and run it once in a while just to keep the gaskets healthy. You don't want them to dry out.

Make sure the oil gets changed seasonally regardless of the mileage and you should be all set. Acids will build up in the oil effecting metal parts if just left to sit. Fresh oil reduces pitting. . ..

I did put a gas line shut off valve on my old snow blower. . .probably around 25+ years old now and carbureted and do run it dry after each time I use it by just closing the in-line fuel valve. That said I occasionally I start it up over the warm months. StarTron is my preferred fuel stabilizer.

I run my motorcycles year round weather permitting so it's more important for me to make sure I run enough fuel through them so ethanol fuel relating phasing is kept to a minimum. Basically I try to run the tanks down pretty low and fill them up with fresh gas when the opportunity presents itself.

Just my two cents worth. . ..

http://www.starbrite.com/startron

[gn2]

Better to not run than run.
If you idle the engine you will get condensation and that's not good.

[GaryCotnam]

Wow, 6 replies in less than 3-1/2 hours! The overwhelming consensus is to keep at least some fuel in the system, so guess I better do that. By the way, I estimated 2 litres in the tank when I started the idle at 11:05 am; it's now 2:20 pm and it's still running! I keep checking on the temperature but it stabilized at normal so that fear of mine is groundless. I'll go until it stops, then fill with stabilized premium gasoline. I only run premium anyways. I don't know if US gas is much different from Canadian... I live in Northern Ontario, so there may be some differences due to colder weather. No winter riding for this guy; not directly because of the cold but for fear of falling due to road ice. I'd never heard that fuel pumps sulk if deprived of gas but know first-hand that untreated gas can corrode/destroy a carburetor, so ever since I always drain the fuel tanks on my lawnmowers, water pumps, etc.

Thanks to everyone for their contributions!

Gary

[gn2]

Reason to fill to the brim is to prevent condensation.
Water vapour is present in air, so the more air in the tank the more condensation you'll introduce into the fuel system.

[davenowherejones]

I get a laugh at people who say they live in Northern Ontario. Sudbury is about 46 degrees North, Hope (where I live close to the USA border) is 49 degrees North and Edinburgh is at 55 degrees North.

Now if you are at Fort Severn, Ontario (76 degrees North) you are half way up Canada. Alert Bay is tops at 82 degrees North.

The other people I laugh at are Americans who say they live in the Midwest which is mostly in the eastern half of the USA.

[homie]

premium gasoline - carburetor - lawnmowers, water pumps, etc.

Welcome to the board Gary. We love ya and just so's you know there is a lot of information in here with a lot of differing opinions and a couple great moderators that we hardly ever need. Some members are very wise and one is a grammar school teacher, but all are mostly old.

Anyway the collective knowledge of these bikes is nice to have and I see something in your reply that jumps out at me that also is by far recommended you don't do with these Honda engines... Premium gasoline. Use in lawn mowers and farm equipment with carburetors is one thing but this high compression finely tuned and amazingly dependable scooter engine was made for 87 octane and no more.

In fact the whole motorbike design from the tire size up has been painstakingly developed over time and model upgrades to balance maximum fuel efficiency with acceptable performance... leaning toward mpg. Now we Americans don't think much about a couple bucks in gasoline and tend to make some modifications tipping that back toward performance but you can bet your bippy this scooter was not made for Americans. It's a good idea to NOT run high obtain fuel continuously in these hard working miracle motors and rather go by the service manuals specific recommendations to avoid scorching the piston rings, valves, blowing gaskets or anything else that might not be designed to handle high octane fuels long term. Honda knows best

BTW do you have the service manual for your bike, maybe someone has a link for the Forza SM

[davenowherejones]

In B.C. super premium is the only gasoline with no alcohol which might be good for storage but is a waste of money for regular running.

[Old Grinner]

Better to not run than run.
If you idle the engine you will get condensation and that's not good.

If you were referring to my post about running the motorcycles year round let me clarify. . ..

I ride them year round and always do at least 5 miles or more each time . . . the more the better in order to minimize or eliminate the condensation factor in the crankcase. Very good point though!

I was informed about that a long time ago. Just running a bike and letting it sit at idle for a few minutes is bad news for the engine. By riding the bike/or scooter for a while allows the engine heat to dissipate the moisture.

Additionally keeping the tank full or near full is always better because it leaves less surface area exposed in the tank to enable condensation to form and eventually find it's way into the fuel. It's something I learned from the marine industry.

And now with no further ado . . .the "Band" with an appearance by Neil Young back in the day.

[you you]

Very funny Homie

In reality nothing much happens during the winter months except the battery goes flat and the tyres may lose a PSI or two.

It’s probably more important to make sure your bike is clean and dry before putting it way attached to a battery charger.

Personally I just run the bikes every couple of weeks to keep them going. It’s worked perfectly for 40+ years. Used to be “necessary” for two stroke bikes to keep the crank seals wet but I mostly do it because I like revving engines

[springer1]

Reason to fill to the brim is to prevent condensation.
Water vapour is present in air, so the more air in the tank the more condensation you'll introduce into the fuel system.

+1. Fill whats now in the tank with no methanol fuel, add stabilizer, run a bit to get it circulated thru the injectors, shut it off and try to find a storage place where daily temp cycles are minimized (hopefully not a shed that gets warmed by the winter sun and then gets cold again at night). Put a breathable tarp over it.

[Old Grinner]

Personally I just run the bikes every couple of weeks to keep them going. It’s worked perfectly for 40+ years. Used to be “necessary” for two stroke bikes to keep the crank seals wet but I mostly do it because I like revving engines

You mean like this?

That'l spook the spiders out of it for sure. . ..

[GaryCotnam]

Lots of interesting opinions going on here. I appreciate them all and want to thank the new contributors.

After idling for more than 3 hours, I finally shut if off because it seemed like it would never stop and by then I had been convinced through overwhelming advice from this forum to keep the tank filled with stabilized gas. So the battery is now out, the scooter is under cover in my shed and now all I have to do is wait until spring! I'll seriously consider the advice on using only regular gas instead of premium. And yes, I do have the Service Manual and find it most useful in getting all the plastic trim off (without breaking any) in order to do anything serious, like changing the rear tire!

Gary

[E. Foster Salsbury]

....getting all the plastic trim off (without breaking any) in order to do anything serious, like changing the rear tire!...

I don't think you need to remove any plastics to take the rear wheel off?

[davenowherejones]

....getting all the plastic trim off (without breaking any) in order to do anything serious, like changing the rear tire!...

I don't think you need to remove any plastics to take the rear wheel off?

I never have.

[you you]

Personally I just run the bikes every couple of weeks to keep them going. It’s worked perfectly for 40+ years. Used to be “necessary” for two stroke bikes to keep the crank seals wet but I mostly do it because I like revving engines

You mean like this?

That'l spook the spiders out of it for sure. . ..

A bit, yes